E 254 A Mom's Journey from Rejection to Affirming Her Trans Child

What do you do when your child comes out to you?

How do you support a transgender or nonbinary child — especially when it feels unfamiliar, overwhelming, or even scary?

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Lulu, also known as The Momatrician — a pediatrician, parent coach, gender and sexuality educator, and the proud mom of a transgender child. But her journey didn’t begin with full understanding and acceptance.

Dr. Lulu opens up about:

Her honest, emotional response when her child came out
Growing up queer in a conservative Nigerian Catholic household
Why parental affirmation is life-saving for LGBTQ+ youth
The difference between accepting your child and truly affirming them
How parents can grow, even if they make mistakes

Whether you're a parent, educator, or someone seeking to understand the transgender experience better, this conversation will touch your heart and expand your perspective.

🔔 Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more honest conversations that help you support your child through anxiety, identity, and growth.

📘 Dr. Lulu’s Book: About Your Black Transgender Child: Answers to Most of Your Burning Questions

🎙️ Podcast: Moms for Trans Kids

YouTube Podcast: Moms 4 Trans Kids

📲 Follow Dr. Lulu on Instagram
🌐 Learn more about Dr. Lulu

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
03:10 Dr. Lulu’s story of growing up queer
08:45 How she responded when her child came out
14:20 Understanding gender identity vs. biological sex
22:00 What it truly means to affirm your LGBTQ+ child
30:50 Advice for parents just starting this journey 

 Struggling with anxiety in your family? If anxiety is causing tension, fights, or disconnect in your home, you don’t have to face it alone. I help parents bring more peace, confidence, and connection to their families. Let’s talk—schedule a free consultation today or email me: ccoufal@cynthiacoufalcoaching.com

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Email me: ccoufal@cynthiacoufalcoaching.com
Text me: 785-380-2064
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Transcript

Cynthia: what would you do if your child came to you with the truth that scared you? What does it really take to be a parent, your child as proud of? If those questions made you pause, then this is exactly the right place for you. Today's guest is a truth teller, a cycle breaker, and a fierce advocate for parents and families navigating the journey of lgbtq plus identity, and especially black and trans and, and gender diverse youth.

Dr. Lulu, also known as the mom, attrition, is a pediatrician. Parent coach, gender and sexuality educator, and the mother of a transgender child. She is also the author of the book about your black transgender child, answers to most of your burning questions. Dr. Lulu [00:01:00] doesn't just talk about acceptance, she lives it.

And today she's here to help us all learn how. So Dr. Lulu, welcome to the show. 

Dr. Lulu: Thank you so much, Cynthia. I cannot believe we're finally doing this. Oh my goodness. I feel like it's been like a year. We've been trying to get a time like two busy moms, two busy people just trying to get one hour window.

Like how hard is it? Very hard. It's very hard. Left to the tone. Well, and we're also dealing 

Cynthia: with natural disasters and problems too. Of 

Dr. Lulu: course. That 

Cynthia: part, that part. I know. It's so fun. But 

Dr. Lulu: we're here. We're here. So let's, let's go. Yes. 

Cynthia: Such an important topic. So first of all, just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Like you have a vibrant life story to tell and, you know, and why you are wanting to do this work. So tell us about that. 

Dr. Lulu: So, I'm, I must start from the very beginning, right? It's a very good place to start. I was born bread buttered and slightly burned in Nigeria. One of the [00:02:00] most homophobia. One of the most religious countries in the world.

So go figure. When I was 11, I went to boarding school and all girls boarding school, and that was when I first noticed that I, well, maybe not at 11, but maybe between 13 and 16, I started noticing that I kinda like girls. I was like, what does this mean? I'm Catholic, I don't wanna go to hell. All the things.

But I also kinda like boys, wait, wait, wait. What? What's, what does this mean? I. So the only word I had then was homosexual. And the second word I had was lesbian. So I just said, well, maybe I'm a lesbian that likes boys. 'cause I didn't know what, I didn't have any other words. And I wanna stop there and say the power of you truly only know what you know.

And that's what they say. Representation matters because when you see someone or when you see a word and you start learning what that word means. Then you now maybe find yourself inside of the word or parts of the word, or parts of the phrase. And so as I got older, I discovered that there's a word called bisexual.

I said, okay, that [00:03:00] word sounds like me. And so for the longest time, that was my identity, my sexual identity. And then I wake up in the morning one day and I'm 55 years old. I'm like, wait, actually I'm pansexual. I'm like, okay. Mm-hmm. What's going on here? God, what are you doing? But that's because I discovered the word pansexual and it fits better.

I mean, you know, you have lots and lots of pairs of shoes. Maybe Snickers fit you better. Maybe you, maybe you like high heels, maybe you like Asper deals. Maybe it's the platforms. I mean, but they're all shoes or they're all footwear like I like to say. So they're all sexual identities, but I realize them.

Bisexual doesn't quite fit because I'm also attracted to trans people, so that's not technically, you know, and we, and if you're non-binary, I don't care. Like I'm still mm-hmm. Attracted to the soul and the person inside. And so I wanna begin with what your children are going through. If as an adult I had to find that space where I fit in.[00:04:00] 

What more your 10-year-old or your 15-year-old, or you know, maybe even your 6-year-old. Right. These things are things that are available for us and when you come in contact with them, then, you know, otherwise you don't just magically know. When my kid was 12, I was like, so is you gay or is you not gay?

And she was like, I don't know. I don't know. And that was her truth at that moment when she was 16. Mm-hmm. She was like, you know I think I might be. And that was also okay because again, she was figuring it out. There's no definite, so I want, I wanna paint a picture for the spectrum here. Yes, you can be all of those things.

You can be none of those things. You can be some of them, sometimes it can be, you know, all of the beautiful ways that we can all just, you know, be, and so, mm-hmm. I don't know if that answered your question, but that, but that's kind of the. Piece of my story that I think led me [00:05:00] into to becoming a gender and sexuality educator, for instance.

Mm-hmm. Because I said, wait, if I'm just discovering this part of my sexuality at 55, what else is out there? 

Cynthia: Yes. What else 

Dr. Lulu: are they, are they not telling us? What else can I find out about myself? Then I realized that I'm actually curious about polyamory. I'm like, oh. Wow, that's a thing. You know? What is it?

It's like, you know, you see a fruit and you're like, what is that? Let me try it. Take it, you know, it tastes really, it tastes like a mango, but it's not quite a mango. I don't know. I don't really like it, or I love it, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think I want us to realize that literally when Martin Luther King said.

When one of us is free, all of us is free. Well, really what he said was mm-hmm. When one of us is not free, none of us is free. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. So, but I wanna 

Cynthia: say, when 

Dr. Lulu: one of us is free, all of us can be free. The minute mile record was not broken until [00:06:00] 74. Somebody run a minute mile. And it was broken, and now people run a mile in less than 30 seconds.

Like it's like once it happens, then oh, it can happen. Mm-hmm. I want parents to know that their children just like them are becoming mm-hmm. You, Cynthia, are not the person you were yesterday. No matter how much you track, you are becoming someone else. We all are becoming. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So parents leaning in is critical.

A lot of parents actually discover their own gender identity or sexual identity after their kids shared their, because it's like, let me lean into this thing. Oh, is this what it is? I've been feeling my whole life. I have no idea. Versus, no, don't do this. Do not ever do that. I don't wanna hear you doing it.

And then you essentially push a wedge between you and your kid. Become estranged and then you [00:07:00] lose that piece of, you know, beautiful relationship that could have been there. Or you could just learn about this together, right? Mm-hmm. And then grow together and get informed more together. So anyway.

Cynthia: Mm-hmm. Well, Dr. Lulu, I was looking at your story on your website and what I think that is so. Is that you actually have been on that other side when you first heard this from your child where you were like, no, I don't want this, and I was. I don't know if I was surprised to read that, but I guess because you're so open and you know so much and you're wanting everyone to know about this, I would've just assumed that at the very beginning you were like, oh, I totally welcome this and everything's fine.

So talk a little bit about that and how that progression of, no, I don't want this, and then how you sort of and you know, came to accept it and came to help your child, I'm sure. 

Dr. Lulu: So, [00:08:00] like we were talking about before we started, you know, I, I made that quote that I said, parents don't want their kids to suffer, period.

No parent wants their child to suffer. Period. That said, when I told my father at 16, he said the same thing. He said, think it's a phase. You're gonna grow out of it. And I believed my dad and for many, many years, I try to squish that. Aspect of my, of myself and hide it and run away from it. It was easy in the sense that being bisexual, I would, I have attraction for both genders at that time.

So it was easy for me to live as a heterosexual and, and, and no one you know, would know. Right. We are none the wiser, but I knew deep inside, everybody knows deep inside. You always know deep inside. Mm-hmm. So I knew deep inside that this is not where it ends for me. I didn't know what it was. That said, no parent wants their child to go through anything painful.

I was talking about, you know, if I have an ovarian cyst, I don't want my kid to go through [00:09:00] through that. If I have a kidney stone, I don't want my kid to go through nobody. No parent wants their child to suffer. So many parents don't. They just don't want their kids to be bullied or be ostracized or be kicked out of the inner circle.

Or not allowed to play ball or use a restaurant that they wanna use. Parents wanna protect their kids. What I, what I, what I do say though, is while you're trying to protect your kid, don't inadvertently become your kid's first bully. Right. Which is what I ended up doing. While I was like, okay, well, so don't paint your nails when Nana is here.

You know, you can paint your nails any other time, but just don't paint. What I was saying to the kid was like, you can be authentic. Sometimes nobody wants that. Right, and that's what bullies, bullies. Well, you, you just can't be too girly or you just can't be too masculine. You have to be just the way I want you to be.

Woo-hoo. Who gave you the right to do that, right? Mm-hmm. So I [00:10:00] realized that while I was trying of grasp it all, I was being my child's first bully. And it really became apparent to me when, you know. On Christmas morning, she, I got a phone call saying, mom, I'm trans, I'm transgender. I'm like, wait, I thought you were just gay.

Wait, I thought you said you were non-binary, so, which is it? Right. Maybe that was not the right way, that was not the right way to respond. Right. But, but it was my truth. And I want people to realize that I, nobody was just born knowing everything. It's all a process. It's all a becoming. And so I love my story for that reason.

The fact that, no, I didn't, I, I had my own struggles with internalized homophobia against my own self. Mm-hmm. Of course I'm not gonna want that for my kid. Right. Becausecause, I was already struggling with it. So I want people to understand that no one, if I can do it, they can do it too. Mm-hmm. If I can, you know, go through what I went through and still turn around and say, you know [00:11:00] what?

My child's life matters more than anybody else's life. Mm-hmm. Besides mine. 

Cynthia: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Lulu: Mine comes first. Parents, you always have to know that your child does not come. I know people say that a lot, but truly, your child does not come first, and here's why. When a parent is suffering, child is suffering. Mm-hmm.

Don't tell me your child comes first when you can barely eat three square meals, right? Mm-hmm. Volunteer your food for your child. I get it. But at the end of the day, if you are not living your best life, your child doesn't see the example of what's possible for them. Mm-hmm. They know that their mother suffered a lot.

That's all they remember. Mm-hmm. So your, you're not, your child is not gonna be doing great if you yourself are just barely surviving. That's what I mean by that. So you must come first. The same reason why you put on your seatbelt in the, in the airplane first. I mean, they could have said, put your child first.

But what's the use [00:12:00] if you're hypoxic and trying to put your child's mask on? I mean, this is what I'm saying. Mm-hmm. So, mm-hmm. Your life comes first, and I gave a talk yesterday about self-care being self-love in action. Mm-hmm. Self care, being self-love in action. Self-care comes from the abundance of self love.

If you are truly going to have the real, true self love. That means you have to love yourself more than anyone else, including your child, including your spouse. Mm-hmm. So ordering on selfishness or hey, we have to do that. We have to self-advocate, have be self allies, be self-compassionate so that we can give from a place of abundance.

Mm-hmm. I love that. Both of us are gonna end up suffer. Mm-hmm. So I want the parents to know that they themselves leaning into the, their child's journey allows the two [00:13:00] of them to grow into this beautiful dances, so to say. Mm-hmm. So once I got that weight after me, my child's life matters the most. It became easy for me to just say, you know what, you have to come through me.

Whoever doesn't like it, it's a damn problem. Mm-hmm. It's a just a change of, of, of framing. It's a change of, of mindset. I'm the one that reads to my child. I'm the one that talked them into, into bed. I'm the one that cooks for them. I did all of that. So I am the best person to be their advocate. 

Cynthia: Yes. I love that.

Dr. Lulu: Yes. Very simple. I put that, it's actually in my book, one of the things, one of the chapters in the book talks about, about the fact that, yeah, you must be about. Taking a bullet for your kid if you can. Mm-hmm. Right? But only if you can. Right. Too weak and too, you know, then [00:14:00] all of us suffer. 

Cynthia: Mm. Yeah. I'm so glad that you said that because I know as parents, we feel like our kids should come before us, but yeah, it doesn't really make sense because then we aren't, if we're not taking care of ourselves, we can't take care of our kids.

So I'm glad that you said that. Now there seems to be a lot of confusion in the world in general, I think, on this gender identity issue because people are like, oh, well you're born male or female, so why are you confused about your gender? And and I, in my studies and working with so many families, I've understood now that sex and gender are not the same thing.

But I think a lot of people still need that message. So. I think please, you know, give us a little lesson on what's the difference there and how people can understand the gender as being different from sex. 

Dr. Lulu: So there's sex and there's sexuality, then there's gender and like what [00:15:00] we're talking about before we went live.

When you're talking about somebody's biological sex that's based on their chromosomes. But let me ask you a question, Cynthia. When you wake up in the morning, do you feel like a, a girl? Like do you feel like a woman, 

Cynthia: Cynthia? Well, I, I, I feel like I do, but then I don't know that I'm actually thinking about it.

Dr. Lulu: Exactly. I just, 

Cynthia: I, that's just how I identify. 

Dr. Lulu: Exactly. And I want, I want, I, I always ask people that, when people say, well, I say, well, well, when did you, when did you decide? You, whoever. Decide to be heterosexual. What day did you say, okay, today I'm gonna choose to be heterosexual? Mm-hmm. You just, it is just something that you know.

Yeah. You just know it so well, and I want to say it's the same thing for those who are sexually minor or sexual minorities or gender minorities or gender minor, [00:16:00] right? So there's sex, which is a chromosomal situation. You and I know, or maybe you don't, that there's also intersex, right? People who mm-hmm.

Based on their chromosomes, their external genitalia is neither male nor female, right? Mm-hmm. But they still feel a certain way. They feel like they're male or they feel like they're female. Mm-hmm. That is gender identity. So the definition of gender identity is a deep, personal, internal sense of self.

Like you said, you don't know when you. Ever thought about it. You just always have been that way. Mm-hmm. Same, exact same thing for someone who's non-binary. Mm-hmm. They've always known that they're not quite, they don't quite fit in. It's like Goldilocks. Well, one chair was ca a bit too big. Mm-hmm. The other chair was, uh, a little too small and this chair was just right.

Mm-hmm. Same [00:17:00] thing. You don't know what it's like to be transgender because you are not transgender. Mm-hmm. Am I? And I say that because my father, who in all of his wisdom said to me that it was a face. He has every right to say that because he's not, he's not pansexual. Right. He doesn't know. Right. So parents dunno what they don't know.

Mm-hmm. And like I said to a parent today in the clinic, how do you know your child is allergic to peanuts? You gotta feed them peanuts. Yeah. You have to give it to your kid. And then when you give it to your kid, then your kid's gonna break out. They say, oh, okay. You're allergic to penicillin, right? 

Cynthia: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Lulu: Same way we have to let our kids lead. So my third TED Talk is titled, let the Children Lead Parenting As Students Parents Have to Be Students of their Children. That's how you learn about your child. You can't just come and say, I know my child. No, you barely know yourself, bro. You know your child, [00:18:00] you don't know your child, you don't know anybody.

Mm-hmm. You only know what your child shows you. Yes. What your child tells you. Mm-hmm. We all know that there was a part of our childhood that we never share with without parents. Mm-hmm. So why do you think your child is different? 

Cynthia: Right? 

Dr. Lulu: Why do you think your child is? Mm-hmm. So you only know what your child wants you to know.

To fully. Okay. And that's why said, well, I can't believe my child is 39 and is just now telling me that he's gay. Well, this is because either he's finally feeling comfortable enough to tell you at 39, or you finally earned your invitation. Yeah, because you know I don't like to talk about coming out. I like to talk about inviting in.

You finally earn your invitation. Or maybe your child finally feels comfortable, maybe has found a community, has found support, and now has found their voice. Mm-hmm. Whatever it is. So it's, it's just, it's not quite as straightforward is all I'm [00:19:00] saying as I know I am such and such. So people say, you know what?

I thought I was bisexual forever until. I discovered, wait, wait. You mean you're trans? I told this lady that I'm, I was, I was just, I had the worst crush on her. I said, wait a minute, how are you trans? She said, I am. Hmm. And that goes to tell you that I'm not attracted to their genitalia. I'm attracted to the soul, to the person that I met.

But before they told me that they were trans, right? Mm-hmm. And then I met another guy. I was like, oh my God, this guy's so hot. And then he tells me his stress. I'm like, wait, what's going on here? And I went back and I looked, what does it mean when someone is attracted to trans people or non-binary people?

They're like, oh, that person is pansexual. I said, oh mm. So we are all learning every day from our kids. So gender is a big umbrella. Underneath that umbrella is gender identity, which is a deep personal, internal [00:20:00] sense of who I am. There's gender expression, which is how I choose to manifest my gender identity.

I'm a girly girl all day. We're talking about your lipstick and your hair earlier on, right? Yep. I am too. I am a girly girl all day. I love dresses. I'm wearing a dress right now with a nice jacket, you know, looking all fly. Well, I looked flyer this morning when the makeup was still fresh, right? And someone else might kill my cup.

My ex-wife, she had one skirt in her entire closet. One. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because she just loved Levi's jeans and she looked so good in them, and she felt even better, right? So those clothes affirmed her. So dressing a little bit more masculine affirmed her, but she was still girly enough to still, you may not, she was not like heavily butch.

But she just didn't feel good in dresses. Yeah, just [00:21:00] did not like skirts, and that's okay. Mm-hmm. So that's a gender expression, how you manifest your gender identity. And then there's gender roles, which is mommy and daddy, right? Mm-hmm. I was a single mom. I raised my three kids, and my dad always said, you do this single mommy like a man.

I said, what do you mean? He said. Well, in his Nigerian mind, he thinks men are like supposed to be like the protector, the provider, all the things I said. That's just a gender role that's such, we're just acting. It is a role that we're playing. Mm-hmm. When I get someone else who maybe is gonna help me raise my kids, I might decide to, okay, just do only the cooking.

I won't wash the car anymore, right? Mm-hmm. Or I wouldn't do the traditionally masculine things if there's any such thing. Yeah, it's a gender role. So there's gender identity, gender expression, gender roles. Gender roles have, now you know that it is blurred. It's this blurred lines. Yes. Mm-hmm. We have [00:22:00] stay at home dads all day.

We have moms that go to work and choose, used to go to work a long time ago. Men. Wore pink. It was for traditional color for men. Mm-hmm. High heels were introduced during the Napoleon era because Napoleon specifically was a short man and wanted to wear heels to, so high heels were traditionally male clothing.

Wigs were traditionally male clothing in the aristocratic era. Right. And today wigs. Maybe we can say more feminine, but I'm just saying how it changes. Yes. This thing I'm wearing is just a piece of material that is cut this way and I like it. And my friend who is a clothing expert, he helps people like.

Buy clothes and like to their closet and things like he talks about how mm-hmm. It is never about how you look in something. It's always about how you feel wearing it. Mm. And then I [00:23:00] thought about that before. He said, listen, you look at the mirror first thing in the morning. You say, oh, this dress looks nice, but for the rest of the day, you have to feel somehow in the dress.

Do you feel good because you don't have a mirror anymore. Right. Technically speaking, yeah, do not work. And if the shoes are tight, no matter how nice they look. You're comfortable. Mm-hmm. So it talks about how, it's always how you feel. So if somebody feels affirmed wearing clothes that are traditionally male, okay, fine.

The Pope wore a gown. Yeah. Yeah. That's what Jesus wore. Mm-hmm. Long flowing gown, let's call it what it is. Jesus' hair was long and flowy just like yours, right? Mm-hmm. In the pictures that we see. Yes, yes. So, so we can't go buy clothing in my country. In my Nigeria, Nigeria, where I grew, men wear rappers or wraparound rappers.

Women also wear wraparound rappers, so [00:24:00] it's not a male or female, kind of like that. I just want people to know that. Mm-hmm. Um, all of these things are just ways of society trying to bother people. You know, just trying, because it, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Just a piece of clothing.

How do you feel when you wear it? If you, if you feel like it affirms you, just like, does your name affirm you? Do your pronouns affirm you? You see, that's the way I'm going with this. Mm-hmm. Then go with it. And it's nobody else's business that, you know, I like to wear. 'cause there's a guy whose picture has gone viral on social media.

He's a white male that only wears skirts and high heeled shoes, but he's, as he is. Heterosexual married man, but he loves wearing heels and skirts. 

Cynthia: Yeah. 

Dr. Lulu: And he 

Cynthia: is doing 

Dr. Lulu: his 

Cynthia: thing. Yes. And I love it when people do that. That is so amazing, and I love your description of all that. [00:25:00] Now, for people who want to.

Contact you or work with you or find out more about what you do. I'm gonna put a lot of stuff in the show notes so they can find you, but tell us a little bit about what you do when you are a parent coach. How do you do that? And I think you have a podcast too, or maybe it's like off and on. I'm not sure if you have seasons.

I, I just don have mine all the time. Some people have seasons, so I don't know 

Dr. Lulu: at, at this point we might as well call it season since, since I think it was, since the swearing in, in January. We just kind of took some kind of hiatus at this point. Yeah. Because all our clients are too scared to come on the show, so they've just been canceling every week, so we just holding space for them.

Cynthia: Mm-hmm. So we 

Dr. Lulu: might as well be on hiatus at this point, but we have, we are booked till November, but every week someone's like, you know, I just, I just don't, I said, it's fine, it's fine. The world is weird right now. The, the podcast is called Moms, the Number Four Trans Kids. So Moms for Trans Kids. So for obvious reasons, you know, [00:26:00] people just.

Are scared to, to come and talk about, you know, their trans kids or their themselves as parents of trans kids because of what's happening in the world right now. And I totally am okay with that. I'm not, you know, it's still my podcast. It's still out there on Apple, but if no one else wants to come right now, I have no problem at all.

I've done the work and I enjoyed it while I did it, and it was great while it lasted. So people can, can find the podcast. It's called Moms for Trans Kids. They can find us on YouTube, they can find us on Apple or wherever we podcasts, you know, live. I also, I'm on Instagram, I'm on LinkedIn. On Instagram, I'm more of a parent coach.

And on LinkedIn I'm more of an educator for physicians. So what I do is I kind of, I'm a bridge, I help physicians. Creates offices and practices that are affirming for all their patients. I want mm-hmm. All of their patients to come in and feel affirmed. So that means if it's a black trans woman, they want, I want 'em to come and say, wow, I felt seen and heard in that doctor's [00:27:00] office.

Cynthia: Yes. Right. 

Dr. Lulu: If it's, and then on Instagram I'm more of a parent coach. I mostly to talk about parents and, and, and affirming their kids. And basically just the fir the first question I ask them is, you know, what were your thoughts when about having a child? When you first thought you were gonna have a child, what did you imagine?

Mm-hmm. Everybody imagined like a quote unquote perfect kid. And yet we have kids with cerebral palsy. We have kids with Down syndrome. We have kids with who are transgender. We have kids who are not everything that we wish for. And guess what? We just have to parent the child We've been given. Part of it is learning from the child and asking the child, how can I help?

Truthfully, when your child says, mom, I'm trans, or Mom, I'm gay, she say, thank you. For telling me. Mm-hmm. Because that means, uh, if you thought I was safe enough for you to tell Yes, 

Cynthia: you were invited and then 

Dr. Lulu: yeah, I was invited. And then also say, you know, congratulations because I just told you how not very easy it is to figure it out, [00:28:00] you know?

So congratulations on, so it's CTA. So congratulations on, on discovering who you are. And then thank you so much for telling me, you know, I really appreciate it. Thank you for finding me safe. And then a ask a question. The question is, how can I help? I. Would you like me? Who would you like me to tell? Who would you like me to not tell?

Mm-hmm. How would you like us to move forward? Would you like to be on hormones? Would you like to us to tell your school? Would you like us to tell your coach? Do you wanna change schools? Do you wanna, you know, tell grandma, you know, who would you like? How can I support you? Is 

Cynthia: the 

Dr. Lulu: question, how is a very open-ended word?

Right? How is like open-ended? What is open-ended? Why may not be quite as open-ended? 'cause it kind of puts people in in a spot. But how can I help you? Allows a child to use their own words. Yes. Hey mom, I just wanna tell you, I just want you to know, I don't want anybody else to know. Wait. Oh mom, I want you to paint my, my room rainbows.

Okay, [00:29:00] great. Oh mom, I would like a rainbow kick, but that's all. Okay, great. Well mom, I would like my friends to come visit. Okay, great. You know, so what, how would you like me to support you? Is what I want the parents to say versus, okay, so are you sure?

Oh yes. Your friend. Is he a friend that that kind of made you, is it because you went to that school? Or you were not gay when you left for college. Now you came back and you're gay. So the funny thing about it is that's actually very, very true. A lot of times when the child goes up to college, they find their community.

Mm-hmm. So they're able to express themselves exactly how they are. So yes, they came back fully affirmed in their mm-hmm. Through gender and their truth. So now it looks like they went and came back gay, but they've always been. They just didn't have, the friends didn't feel affirmed at home or whatever.

Right? Right. So the [00:30:00] questions you don't wanna ask is, and you also, I know people wanna say, I love you a lot. I wanted to go there because the not, there's nothing wrong with, I love you. There's something wrong with Mom, I'm gay. I love you. Because if someone, if your daughter said, mom, I'm straight. You are not gonna say, I love you.

If your son brought Susan home, you're not gonna say, oh, I love you. Mm-hmm. It's, I love you. You're supposed to love your kid. Regardless. It, it doesn't matter. Right. It's like that's to, that's to me, that's not the answer. The answer is, congratulations. Thank you so much. Oh my goodness. That's amazing. You can ask maybe, how long have you known, right?

Mm-hmm. You say, what made you wanna tell me today now? Mm-hmm. You know. You can say, um, oh my goodness, how would you like to move forward? What would you like us to do next? And things like that. Allowing the child to have autonomy of their story, autonomy of what to do next, right? [00:31:00] 

Cynthia: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Lulu: Um, I love you is okay.

I just don't think that that's the answer at that point. I just don't. Mm-hmm. I feel like the child, like, okay, so Oh wow. So it was so, oh wow. So you didn't love me before, like. What? What does that mean? Mm-hmm. And because you don't know, you dunno what your child has gone through, what it took for them to tell you that.

Mm-hmm. So definitely celebrating it is because a lot of kids, there are two points when the average queer child, which is like what I like to say, what if average LGBT, child as suicidal ideation, intense suicidal ideation, two moments in their life when they first discover that they are indeed gay. It's like, oh my God, my parents are gonna kill me.

Mm-hmm. And when they actually tell their parents, that's what the studies have shown. And the average time between the one and the other is about 10 to 14 years. 

Cynthia: Ah, oh my. I did not know that. 

Dr. Lulu: Yes. So that's, that's a study that I discovered when I was writing my book. So I really want people to [00:32:00] know that it is not easy for someone to, especially in the south here where I live, where there's a, the bible belt where they, they wanna use the Bible to just whip you to, to, to oblivion.

Parents should know that your child may never, ever, ever tell you. Mm-hmm. And you have to be okay with that. Mm-hmm. Because a lot of times it's about safety. It's about their safety and maybe even your safety. 'cause now mm-hmm. In some states, they're arresting parents for affirming their kids like Texas.

Yeah. Where used to live. So I want people to know that whenever your child invites you in, be thankful, be happy, be gracious, be grateful, and celebrate. Mm-hmm. Which is why I said congratulations, celebrated. And then ask them, what would you like us to do next? Mm-hmm. So CTAs congratulate, thank and then ask the question.

Oh, that's good. Yeah. And then for the physicians, I just, I just teach them the language. I teach them the I teach [00:33:00] them the power of affirming one person how much that costs. And the fact that if one patient feels affirmed, what are they gonna do? They're gonna bring their friends. Yes. They'll never leave you.

Yeah. You'll be awesome patients because of you, you know? Mm-hmm. Then when one person doesn't feel affirmed, they could sue you. Yeah. Doctors don't ever wanna be sued. Right. They could sue you. Mm-hmm. Um, they'll leave and they could take their friends with them. So at the end of the day, it does affect the bottom line.

But also we took an oath to first do no harm. Mm-hmm. Oath. See all our patients, regardless of our morals and our own beliefs, right? If someone comes to see me and you know, I don't know, they have five boyfriends, my job is not to say, oh, I cannot believe you have five. My job is to say, okay, well, let's talk about how that makes you feel.

Do you feel [00:34:00] affirmed doing that? Mm-hmm. Are you using protection? Are you, mm-hmm. Are you like an STD screen? I mean, let's talk about you as a patient. Not. Yep. Your lifestyle, because that's not that no one has, everyone has skeletons in their closet. We really went to go look. Mm-hmm. So I help the physicians also feel better about themselves.

Mm-hmm. Feel better about affirming all their patients, particularly black patients. Because of intersectionality. Because of health inequities. Health inequities. Equity means everybody gets a T-shirt that fits. 

Cynthia: Yes. I love it. 

Dr. Lulu: Equality means everybody gets a t-shirt. Mm. Equity means everyone gets the T-shirt that fits.

Mm. Their style or what they like, and that's, yeah. Equity. So both of us are women, but if both of us go to see a doctor, [00:35:00] my doctor better recognize that I'm an immigrant. 

Cynthia: Mm-hmm. Right. 

Dr. Lulu: I'm queer. I have fibromyalgia. I'm a disabled veteran. My doctor better know that I, I have my front teeth knocked out.

Right. My doctor better know that now we're both women. 

Cynthia: Yeah. 

Dr. Lulu: My doctor better recognize that you may have a family history of, I don't know, something that I don't have. Mm-hmm. So you can't just treat us equally. See the difference now? Yeah. Mm-hmm. You have to treat us how we need to be treated. Yes, as patients, which means I come with my baggage.

You come with your baggage. I've been twice divorced. There may be some things that I may not wanna know about or whatever. You know what? Because of my history, and you may have diabetes, I don't. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So while we're both women going to the same doctor, that's all there is [00:36:00] to it. Yes.

The actual patient, we have to recognize each patient's baggage, which means their intersectional identities, all the other things that they come with them to the doctor. Mm-hmm. I have significant high blood pressure when I was pregnant with my kid. I mean, you may not have had that, so I'm just saying our history matters.

Mm-hmm. And so the doctor doesn't get to choose, well, I'm gonna take care of this kind of patient. No. You can't choose that and you didn't take an oath then One of the things I say is, first, while our oath is first do no harm, my quote is, first do no further harm. Mm-hmm. Because we've, most of us are coming with some degree of trauma, so recognizing that is critical.

I could go on and on, girl. 

Cynthia: Oh, I know. I love it. And it fits so much with education too, which was where I was at for 31 years. Is that in? And I was in public education. So we get all, everybody that lives in our area and we [00:37:00] have to deal with all of them in a beautiful way, wherever they are, affirm them in every way that we can.

And I. I was trying to teach that as much as I could at my school. I was the one who knew about what pansexual was and what all these different things. So I would like teach the educators like, these are the words, we need to know what this is. We need to, you know, care about all of our students no matter where they're at, and love all of them.

And so I wish we had an oath. Do no harm. I mean, I, I knew that was in the doctor's oath, and educators don't have that, but we totally should have that because that's what. I mean, we shouldn't be doing harm to these kids who are sent to us and they have to come, um, and they have to come to this particular school if they're, you know, in the public school system.

And so I think that's beautiful. I am so glad that you are on my podcast. This is information that I, it's I love, I want people to know about. I want us to care for everyone and take care of everyone and affirm them when we can. And [00:38:00] so thank you so much for giving us. 

Dr. Lulu: I like that you used the word affirm.

A lot of parents or a lot of people don't know the difference. 'cause I did not know what it meant and then I learned about it while I was working on the book. Well, maybe before, a little bit before that, but I mean, the book took me three years. So really while I was working on the book. But the word affirm is what fair folks prefer to accept.

And that's because. Acceptance while it's the more common word. Mm-hmm. Acceptance truly means that. Okay, so I get to decide if I wanna accept you or not. Yes. And that's okay. It's okay enough, but affirming means I'm making you, so acceptance is kind of more internal. Mm-hmm. I get to decide. I'm gonna accept you or not.

You know what? I accept you, that's fine, but just don't do it [00:39:00] outside. Okay? 

Cynthia: Yeah. 

Dr. Lulu: Mm-hmm. You can do it indoors where you, so that's, that's acceptance. Like with limitations or with like boundaries. But affirmation means I am going to do everything to make you feel seen, heard, supported, right? So accept as is, like empathy and affirmation is like compassion.

So empathy is compassion. Well, or rather, compassion is empathy. Plus, how can I support you? How can I help you? That's what compassion is, is the next level. Affirmation is also acceptance. Plus, how can I support you? Like what can I do to make you feel heard and seen and such that you feel affirmed. So when it comes to affirmation, I'm not gonna say, oh, I'm gonna affirm you.

It's not a thing. However, what I'm saying, what I'm doing, how I'm acting, you feel affirmed. Does that make sense? Mm, [00:40:00] yes. I love that. I didn't know that 

Cynthia: the definition, I just had students that told me that I was gender affirming, and so I just kind of adopted that word. It's exactly, 

Dr. Lulu: exactly. It's a feeling that they have.

Exactly. You can, like I said, you can't come out and say, I wanna affirm all the kids. No. But your actions, the way you talk to 'em, they feel seen. They feel like you are saying you are exactly who you say you are. And I'm here to support that. That's where affirmation is. Whereas acceptance is like, yeah, sure, whatever.

You can wear the blue shoes, but uh, just don't wear them indoors. Mm-hmm. 

Cynthia: Yes. And there is a lot of that I think. Like that's how people who don't like it show, oh, I'm being nice 'cause I say that I accept it. But it's not I, I feel like I can see through it, and I'm sure the kids do too. So, uh, kids are very smart when it comes to that kind of stuff.

And so I, I just try to be as real as I can be [00:41:00] because I know that the kids will know that I am somebody that they can trust and that I am a safe, safe spot. So I just keep doing that. But Dr. Lulu, I am so glad you were here. Thank you so much. I'm glad we finally made it through the storms and the. Weird scheduling and everything because we were supposed to talk to each other.

So yes. Um, I hope my audience just reaches out and finds you and sees all the things that you're doing and, and checks out your book too. 

Dr. Lulu: Yeah, please. I mean, anyone who hears me, I would like to get in touch with me. I'm on Instagram at, at the. Attrition, M-O-M-A-T-R-I-C-I-N, and on LinkedIn is Dr. Lulu, and on Facebook is Dr.

Lou's Angels Haven, which is my nonprofit that helps find safe affirming homes for LGBT kids who are experiencing homelessness. So I'm just trying to. Capture, um, everyone as much as I can, I'm open for coaching for queer folks who are trying to, you know, understand their [00:42:00] journey and help them invite the right people into their spaces.

I coach parents of LGBT kids who are trying to understand how they can support their kids and also antagonize the homophobes around them. And also I help physicians, like I said, more with physician practices. Practices are like 10 or less people. I help them just create that space where their patients leave.

They're saying, wow, that was a great experience, but the patient journey is really affirmed. So, yeah. 

Cynthia: Yeah. So needed. Well, thank you so much for doing all that work in the world. We need you and, um, thank you. I, I am just so glad you were here. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank 

Dr. Lulu: you, Cynthia. I appreciate 

Cynthia: you.