Cynthia: [00:00:00] Well, hi everyone. I am so excited. You're joining us today because we have a wonderful guest and I love the topic that we're going to be talking about today because two of my most popular episodes have been about drama. And I know it's on everyone's mind most of the time. And so we're totally going to be talking about that today.
My guest today is Colleen O'Grady and she is a licensed psychotherapist coach and trainer. Who helps moms reduce drama, reclaim their lives, and establish a healthy connection with their tweens, teens, and young adults. Colleen has a thriving private practice in Houston, Texas, and she coaches moms from around the world on zoom after 50, 000 hours of working with parents and teens and being a mom in the trenches with her own teenage daughter.
She published her award winning and bestselling books, dial down the drama, reducing conflict and reconnecting with your [00:01:00] teenage daughter. A guide for mothers everywhere and her newest bestselling book, dial up the dream, make your daughter's journey to adulthood the best for both of you. Colleen has shared her message of practical hope with moms worldwide and parents magazine, HuffPost, Yahoo news.
Wall Street Journal, and has been seen on Fox News, NBC, Spectrum News, Texas, and on the red carpet at TEDx Wilmington. Colleen is the host of Power Your Parenting Moms with Teens podcast. And I was on that one
Colleen: recently with over
Cynthia: a million downloads. And so Colleen, thank you so much for joining us
Colleen: today.
I'm so excited to be here. Take care. Well, I
Cynthia: want to know more about this this book about drama, the dial, dial down the drama because that's what we want to [00:02:00] do. Tell us about that book and how can it help our teens and how can it help our moms?
Colleen: Yeah. Well, yes. So I think everybody finds themselves in drama.
Mm hmm. And you don't even know how you got there. Mm hmm. And when I say dial down the drama, I mean, you can't completely eliminate all drama, but you definitely can dial it down and you don't want drama to be defining your life, your relationships, because you're just not going to enjoy it. Mm hmm.
Exactly. And so, you know, for you teens who are listening, you know, we can talk about. Drama with friendships, but also like drama with your mom and with your dad. Yes. So there's, there's many levels of drama, but really my book, it's really [00:03:00] for moms to help them dial down their drama. So you teens may think well.
You know, surely, I mean, well, okay, sorry, I'll say this a lot of times teens, you get blamed for the drama, but actually, you know, moms kind of help fan that drama themselves. And so, yeah, so this book is really kind of like, like helping you understand how you kind of fall into the drama and then how can you dial it down so that you can actually enjoy your life.
That's the point and enjoy your relationships.
Cynthia: Yes, that is so important. And I know that even a lot of the kids that I work with, they even have drama with their teachers. So it's just, you know, really there's all sorts of ways that that plays a part in it. And like you were saying, it's our whole lives.
Like, we're always having to pay attention to that. And And I I know when I was in middle school and high school, I kept thinking, Oh, I can't wait till I'm an adult. So I don't have to deal with this girl drama anymore. [00:04:00] And then I realized that it still happened when I was at work and still happens to this day.
I, I do know how to stay out of it now for the most part, but you're right. We can't stop it. Necessarily, because we can't control other people and other people sometimes really like to be in drama and do a lot of dramatic things, but we can control our role in like what we're doing in that in those situations.
And so is that kind of some of the stuff that you teach, like how we control our own, our own reactions and perceptions of that?
Colleen: Yes, absolutely. So if you're a mom or you're a teen, kind of how I start the book is really how to take really good care of yourself. Mm. You know, moms, I know some of you moms are listening, is we get these really weird little messages, and I call them powerless parenting messages, which tell us it's selfish to pay attention to ourselves and we need to put ourselves last on the [00:05:00] list.
Mm. And so that is a recipe for drama, actually, because if you don't take care of yourself and teens, this is, this applies to you also, like if you don't get sleep and you're completely stressed out about school and you haven't taken any breaks, mom, if you're just going from one thing to another and the two of you meet in the house, all it takes sometimes is one eye roll or mom snapping something like.
Why isn't your homework done? And boom, it's off. So it is amazing. You know, if you eat food, if you get some sleep, if mom, you actually take some time for yourself. So a fun little story is I had a mom who I have a online program and, but every week she'd go, Oh my God, my daughter, she's so blah, blah, blah, blah.
She would say that. And my week is terrible because [00:06:00] of all this drama. And so. I said, so this next week I said, so how, how are things? And she said, it's great. And I said, well, I guess your daughter's changed. And she goes, actually, no, I went with my friends to a movie. I went out to eat with some other friends and I just took some time for myself.
She's just the same. So I think if you're a mom or a teen, if you take care of yourself, it's much easier to not get hooked in the drama.
Cynthia: Oh, I agree. And I don't remember what all the letters of halt stand for, but there used to be a thing that, you know, it was like, are you hungry? Are you, I don't know what, I'll have to look it up, but there's like this, there's an acronym halts.
Like when you're feeling upset, you know, you think about, are, am I these things, but hungry is one of them. And I'm sure like, are you feeling, did you get enough sleep? Did you, you know, those [00:07:00] are things to really think about because I also was just, as you were talking about that and I had, I, well, I have a daughter, she's an adult now she's not a teen anymore, but I remember our biggest things.
Had to do with our hormones, like our period. And when that, when our period, it was time for our period to happen. And sometimes we might be in sync. I don't remember how that worked, but I used to get like, really weird. Like I would, it was easier to snap and, and yell when I was around that time. And sometimes like some of the, my perceptions in my mind were so bizarre and I knew they were, but yet I couldn't like not react to them.
Almost. I, it felt like, and I remember telling her when she was growing up, okay, this week I might say some really, really weird stuff and I want you to ignore me. And there were times when she was having just a complete meltdown, crying and screaming about something. And I would say, you know, is this, [00:08:00] is this you talking or is this your period talking like which, you know, and then she would sometimes say, I think this is, you know, I feel out of control.
I think, and it doesn't feel like it's me. And so I think that has something to do with it too. And not that boys don't have hormone changes and you know, that probably affects their moods as well. But I really do see. That like periods being part of that problem.
Colleen: Yeah, for sure. It's interesting that some of the neuroscientists kind of dismiss hormones, but I remember a female researcher saying it's wrong.
Yeah. As any female would know. Right. That was, that's craziness. Yeah. So another thing I would say is that what can help you dial down the drama is understanding a little bit about the neuroscience because and I'll make this real simple. [00:09:00] Like there's really two versions of each of us. There's probably thousands, but I'm going to make it simple.
There's two versions of us. And one is the one that when we put our best foot forward, Best self forward and it's just like, oh my gosh, you know, you're so great. You're so fun. You're so upbeat. You know, you're, you know, we really like you because you're just all this. But then then there's a side of you when you get really stressed or you get really anxious or you get really irritated or really sad or all of that.
The scientists call that being emotionally flooded. So when you're emotionally flooded with some of these negative emotions, what happens is that you go offline from your higher brain. So like I compare this to a laptop computer. So [00:10:00] what that means is you can't get on the internet. All the, all you have is the word processor.
That's it. So when you get really upset, What happens is now you are in the lower part of your brain, which is the limbic system, and that part of the brain just doesn't have the tools to fix problems or to even negotiate. And it also kind of tends to see things as all or nothing. And so if you've ever said something like all my teachers are so mean to me, everybody is so rude.
You, and if you say something to your mom, like you never do anything for me. That, that usually is coming from evaluating things from that lower brain because the higher brain kind of sees more of the details. It has perspective. It can see long term consequences. It can [00:11:00] see like, Hey, I was out with my friends yesterday.
There's one or two kids that are really bothering me, but it's not the entire
Cynthia: school. Mm hmm. Mm
Colleen: hmm. So what happens? Is that with any relationship and like, if it's a mother, son, mother, daughter, if it's with two friends or between a mom and her husband, it's like when that self that's calm shows up is like we, we like that person.
But when that person is kind of emotionally flooded, you know, that's when the fights happen. That's when you kind of get offended, you get irritated and that causes drama. A big mistake I'm going to tell you teens is that moms make is when they're upset about something. Let's say that you walked in [00:12:00] after curfew.
And let's say, maybe you even had a little bit to drink and mom is mad and then so she starts yelling at you and you're saying something like, you're going to be grounded forever. I can't believe you did this to me. Well, I don't know. You know, if you've had a little bit of drink to drink, little teenager, you probably could be yelling back at your, your parent and that isn't going to be helping you and parent.
That's not helping your teen because first of all, she has had a little bit to drink. You're really upset and you can't solve it. You can't, you can't do. Anything when either of you are in that place.
Cynthia: Yeah, and I feel like we are not taught this. Well, we don't have a manual on how to parent people, but kids are not taught these things either.
We're doing better in [00:13:00] school about teaching this type of thing. Like. How to process your emotions or what's happening, even in your brain. I do know there are some programs now that schools are using, but for the most part, we're still not doing a good job of explaining this to young people. And of course our parents, you know, I didn't get that kind of education when I was growing up.
You know, we just, I just parented my kids the way I was parented for the most part. And so, you know, books like yours and programs where people can start learning these kinds of things is so important because it's going to help our relationships just be so much calmer and better all around our relationships with our friends, our romantic relationships, our work relationships.
I mean, everything can be. Made better by knowing how our brain works and how our emotions work. And do you see this getting better at all in your, you know, areas? Do you see that [00:14:00] kids are learning more about this? Do you think schools are doing a better job? What do you, what do you see in your practice?
Colleen: I think it's getting a tiny bit better, but I think what what I have tried to do in my book and I want to give give some people a practical tip because I don't want to leave them in this place of, okay, so what do you do? Yeah, both emotionally flooded. I don't want to leave them in that place. So here's the thing.
Why, you know, just a little bit of the science, you don't have to be a neuroscientist, but just knowing a little bit of this is Will help you parent and will help you just dial that drama down So what I like to tell parents or teens is that timing is everything So it usually is not when you feel it So you just feel like yelling at your friend or yelling at your boyfriend or getting upset at your mom or mom getting [00:15:00] upset at the teen or the husband or whatever.
Mm-Hmm. . It's usually not the moment. Mm-Hmm. because you feel it super strong and you just, you just wanna tell 'em which way. Mm-Hmm. . Now why it's not the moment is. Well, first of all, your, like you were kind of saying this before, your perception of things is all or nothing. You never do anything for me.
So what is someone going to say back? I always do something for you, so you're not going to get anywhere, right? So the first thing to do when it gets hot between a friend or whoever is to take a break, to take a pause. And so for both for you, and if there's just one person that's upset, then you get to take a pause, both of you, and then you can walk around the block, you can listen to music, you can do anything that can kind, you can [00:16:00] journal, you can talk to a friend, anything that can help bring the intensity down.
Yeah, because when you bring the intensity down, and you start to feel calmer the higher brain comes back online, you've got the internet again, and then you can think about, okay, how can I say this in a way that someone else can hear me? So John Gottman, who is a marital researcher but it's definitely.
Wonderful and knows the neuroscience. He talks about a harsh startup versus a soft startup. So a harsh startup is just kind of how you feel. So like, let's say you're a mom and you know, your husband comes in two hours late, so a harsh startup is like. You know, blankety, blankety blank. Mm-Hmm. . [00:17:00] You are so selfish.
Why don't you even think like, I can't believe I did all this for you. You never, ever, ever think about me. That would be the harsh startup. Mm-Hmm. . Well, that's guaranteed. The harsh startup comes out, comes out when we are emotionally flooded. Mm-Hmm. . When we're in that emotional part of the brain that is gonna be, you're, then you're gonna set him off.
And he's going to say, well, you don't do anything. Blah, blah, blah. So he, he throws and he's now triggered. Yeah. That's going to go nowhere. So a soft startup is you're aware of what you want to say to them. And so if you're a teen, you want to usually want to say F this F that but you, you don't say it and then you think about, okay, what do I really want to say?
And so you would say, I thought we were going to go out tonight [00:18:00] and but you didn't contact me and you just went out with, you know, you know, Tiffany and you didn't talk to me. And so it's, it's not accusatory. It's not extreme. And then you have a chance of actually having a, you know, a conversation. Mm hmm.
I love that. So the timing is everything is that you have to wait till you're calm. So you don't have these harsh startups and, and that you can kind of really think about it. It's like, no, like she did all these things for me last week and she really is a friend. She does care about me. Then you have perspective and then you can say something, a real specific, what's the real specific thing that I want to ask for.
Cynthia: Mm hmm. Yeah. I, when I talk to kids about taking that break, some of them would tell me well, my parents says I have to [00:19:00] stand there and listen to them and I have to, I can't leave the room, you know, cause I'm leaving the conversation or whatever. And so I would talk to them about, you know, when you're not having a conflict, explain to them that when these things happen, I need to take a break.
To, you know, get my head together to plan what I'm going to say so that your parent realizes if things are getting heated and you say, I need to take that break, that they are aware that that's what you're trying to do. Because again, the way we were sometimes taught to parent was, well, don't let them walk away from you and don't let them, you know, like you need to tell them what's going on or whatever.
And so. And so it was almost like I was teaching kids how to teach their parents how to have these conversations. But I mean, I think it was helpful. And I think when you have those conversations, when you're not heated, like, okay, the next time things come up that we need to really have a conversation.
Serious conversation about here's how I need it to [00:20:00] be. And this is what I've been learning. And, you know, you can help me by doing this or whatever. And, you know, parents maybe who already did kind of know that stuff can also talk to their teen about, you know, sometimes I'm going to need to take a break and this is what I'm going to do.
And just kind of like almost having a plan about it, I guess, of how it's going to. B, I think is really, really helpful. But so I'm going to put your, your website in the show notes so that people can go and you have a lot of free resources and all sorts of things for parents there that are helpful in not just with drama, but just all sorts of parenting things that go on because you have so much.
Experience and knowledge working with teens and parents and so I'm going to make sure that they have access to all of those things and they can listen to your podcast and just contact you if that's what they would like to do. So, is there anything else you'd like to share before we go today?
Colleen: What I think I would [00:21:00] say is. is to have, if you're a teen or if you're a mom is, is to have some compassion for yourself. Cause, cause life is really stressful. And like kind of you were hinting at, it's like, we're not taught these life skills. We've gotten a lot smarter since we started understanding some of the neuroscience, but you're not a bad kid.
You're not a bad mom. If you lose it. In fact, I mean, this is why I wrote the book. I was a therapist for. Marriage and family therapist for 14 years and when my daughter turned 12 she was kind of in a pretty hormonal place and I was too for different reasons and I saw, oh my God, it is so easy for me to just lose it with her.
And, you know, I'm a therapist and I know like, I'm not supposed to do that. This is not helpful. But there I was losing it, [00:22:00] which is actually why I even wrote the book because it's like, how did I get there? I know better. I speak at marriage and family therapy conferences all over the place. How did I get to this place?
I was the, I was in youth ministry. Teens thought I was like the coolest person ever cause I played guitar. So why can't I get along with my own teen? Yeah. And that's why I wrote the book.
Cynthia: So mothers and daughters do have, you know, there is some kind of head butting that goes on that's a little bit different than mothers and sons or fathers and daughters.
There's just something different about that. It is true.
Colleen: And it's true, I think, and not in all cases, but I think there's some drama boys for sure, but I think that, and the research shows us that girls will feel emotions more intensely during the teenage years than any other time of their life.
Cynthia: I can attest to that.
[00:23:00] I used to write poetry like crazy when I was a teenager. I don't have anything to write about anymore. And I'm glad I like my life being calm now. But I do remember and I thought that I had no control over any of it. I mean, I felt out of control and I felt that that was just the way life was and that there wasn't any way to fix it or do things differently.
And I think that's my biggest mission working with teens is I want them to know that there's other ways to look at this and other ways to deal with things, not just, just allow everything to happen to you. And oh, I guess this is just the way it is. It doesn't have to be that way. And there's some parents that think that too.
And so. You know that I think this conversation helps them to know too. It doesn't have to be a fight. It doesn't have to be problematic all the time. There are ways to deal with it that are calm and helpful and, and you can build a good relationship even if you haven't had one up until now, [00:24:00] today's the best day to get started on that.
Oh yeah,
Colleen: that's what I do. I help, I help turn these things around. I love
Cynthia: that. Well, thank you so much for being with us today. It's going to be helpful for everyone to just see what you have out there, read your books, and I'm going to put all the stuff in my show notes so they can check that out.
Colleen: Well, thank you so much.
This has been a treat. Yeah.
Cynthia: I've enjoyed it. Thank you so much.