This week's episode is a personal one! I sit down with my amazing daughter, Haylie, to talk about something we haven't publicly discussed before her experience with anxiety.
Now, I know I usually talk about teen anxiety as a coach, but this time, we're turning the tables. You'll hear about:
This episode is filled with raw honesty, humor, and valuable insights for parents, teens, and anyone struggling with anxiety.
Here's a sneak peek:
Find my podcast
Email me: ccoufal@cynthiacoufalcoaching.com
Text me: 785-380-2064
More information
This week's episode is a personal one! I sit down with my amazing daughter, Haylie, to talk about something we haven't publicly discussed before her experience with anxiety.
Now, I know I usually talk about teen anxiety as a coach, but this time, we're turning the tables. You'll hear about:
This episode is filled with raw honesty, humor, and valuable insights for parents, teens, and anyone struggling with anxiety.
Here's a sneak peek:
Find my podcast
Email me: ccoufal@cynthiacoufalcoaching.com
Text me: 785-380-2064
More information
Cynthia: everyone. I am so excited that you're joining me today. And I have my favorite guest that I've ever had in my whole time back with me again, because it is my daughter Haylie Lancaster, but she was on my 14th episode. Which was about bullying and that was 3 years ago, which is so crazy to me and she and I cannot believe that I've been doing this for 3 years.
And I never run out of things to talk about. But the reason I'm having her today when we talked about bullying 3 years ago. I feel like this is part of the story of today, but only maybe, you know, a little bit of the part of the story and we can go back into that. But if you want to know more about the bullying stuff, you can go back and listen to that episode.
But today I wanted to talk about her perspective with growing up with anxiety and having anxiety now, because since my rebrand, I am the T9 anxiety coach. [00:01:00] And it was so funny because I didn't want to choose that as. Who I was for a long time, and then when I finally let it sink in that I should be the teen anxiety coach, all the stuff from the past came up in my mind, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm the perfect person to be the teen anxiety coach because my daughter has had anxiety her whole life, but we didn't even know it.
And now we know it, she has this whole adult perspective about it. And so we're going to talk about that today and also talk about what parenting worked for her, what parenting didn't work for her. And I want her to be totally honest, because this is good information for parents who are listening and it's good information for teens, because maybe they can come up, like if something's not going right.
In how they're being parented right now with anxiety that that gives them some words that they can talk to their parents about. So hello, Haylie. Do you have anything you want to say at 1st before we get started?
Haylie: [00:02:00] No, I just, I I'm excited to talk about this because I, yeah, it's been such a big part of my life.
And I finally feel like now in my. But I don't want to say my old age, but now that I'm older, I feel like I, I definitely feel like I have it figured out.
Cynthia: So. Oh, good. And you're also, you know, in the mental health space or you're not really practicing a lot of mental health stuff with others right now, though.
I think no matter what jobs we ever have in our lives, knowing mental health things is helpful, but And you probably are using it a lot and you're just maybe not even realizing it. But yeah, I think that's
Haylie: my life.
Cynthia: But we didn't, well, I didn't know that you had anxiety your whole growing up life.
And I really, even in your college life. Until you were diagnosed by some, a therapist, I still just kept thinking that it wasn't true. So when [00:03:00] you look back onto your like earliest times, can you pinpoint what was going, what was in anxiety? What wasn't? When did it start? Do you know, can you tell any of that?
Haylie: Yes, I can. I remember my 1st panic attack very vividly because I remember I was just it was the worst feeling I had ever had and. If you've had a panic attack, it is the worst feeling that you've ever had. I'm sure. But this is so silly. I don't remember there was a time in my growing up when chicken soup, I'm so sorry.
Oh, my gosh. Chicken noodle soup for the teenage soul. Someone gave me that book as a gift. I don't remember. Those books were really popular when I was growing up. Anyway, it was full of stories from teenagers and. There was one about a girl whose mom died. And I remember reading that and having the realization like, Oh, my parents can just die at any point.
And there's literally nothing I can [00:04:00] do about it. And I remember reading that story and having a panic attack that night because I was like, Oh, this is, this is something I don't have any control over. And I think that manifested itself in a lot of ways. I mean, obviously that, like I said, that night I had a panic attack, but I used to then.
Start doing things to prevent that and it was stuff that didn't make any sense. Like, I had to have things in rainbow order. And if I did those things, then you wouldn't die or I would say in my head at the beginning of the day. Okay. If I, you know. Count every step that I take today and my mom won't die, which I think is like some OCDs, type behavior.
But definitely all circulated around this anxiety that I could not prevent your death. That was my first huge fear. And I remember thinking, okay, if I'm with her, so if [00:05:00] I'm at home and we're together, everything's fine. But if I, if she leaves. Like, when you would go to work in the morning, I was like, okay, there could be a car accident.
She's not here. I can't prevent it. For some reason, I felt like if I was with you, I could prevent it, which super doesn't make any sense, but that's how I justified it in my mind. So yeah, all day when you were at work and I was at school, I was like, okay, she's, she could die at any minute. And I mean, that's all I would think about.
Like, that is truly what, what my mind spiraled to all the time. Do you
Cynthia: think I, that seems like when you were a little bit older and I feel like it was second grade ish when you were throwing up every day, were, are, were you thinking these things when you were throwing up every day or was, how was that?
Haylie: Honestly, I do. I think a lot of the like. The illness type stuff, I think, I don't know that I was [00:06:00] having the thoughts yet of like these things could happen, like my mom could die or, you know, somebody I care about could die. I don't think it, I equated it yet to the illness part. I do genuinely think that, like, I just had a stomach issue.
Well, that's
Cynthia: good to know because I, I keep thinking, well, that was dumb that I didn't realize that, you know, I always, there was an excuse in my mind always about why, Oh, she's allergic to red dye or she, you know, whatever. I want to ask you a question about like one of the things that I wanted to talk about is the parenting, you know, what parenting worked, what didn't work.
And I remember. Like, I haven't talked about this with in any of my podcasts or presentations about anxiety, but I remember when you, you know, there was a night and I don't know that this was the panic attack night. I don't know that you even told us that you had a panic attack. Cause I didn't know you had panic attacks until you were in college.
I could not have [00:07:00] told
Haylie: you that that was a panic attack until I learned more about it. Right. You didn't know what it was. I thought I was crazy. Like,
Cynthia: but I remember one time you saying to me that you didn't want me to do something because I could die. Like I think it was go somewhere or go on a plane or I can't remember what it was, but I remember you saying, I don't want you to go because you could die.
And I knew that I couldn't tell you, well, don't worry about it. I'll never die because that I don't have control over that either. So I, I remember saying to you, well, Haylie, if that happens, you'll figure it out. Like. You'll be okay. And people will take care of you. And, you know, I'm going to try my hardest not to die.
I'm still saying that to you. Like, I'm loving to be 100 and I'm going to do everything I can to love to be 100 and, but if I don't, you're going to be okay. And I remember telling you that I feel like you were like fifth grade ish. I mean, I try to think about, I feel like you were around fifth grade. And I do remember [00:08:00] there were other things like all of a sudden you didn't want to spend the night with people.
And I was like, well, why don't you want to go spend the night? It was even like with your cousins and stuff. And I was like, and I remember you saying, you didn't say, I don't think you said that. You just said, well, I want. You won't be able to kiss me goodnight or you won't be able to, you know, and maybe that was part of your rituals of, you know, these things have to happen or whatever.
But I remember thinking for a short time, like, Oh no, I want her to go off into the world and be an independent human being. I don't want her to be clung to me all the time. Cause I saw that as a school counselor where kids were too connected to their parents. I was like, Ooh, I don't want that. And so I don't, I don't know if I reacted well or not.
But tell me, first of all, how did it feel when I said, well, you know, I, I don't think I said, I don't have control over that either, but I think I said, you know, well, I'm, I don't know if I'm going to die, but even if I did, [00:09:00] you're going to be okay. Was that helpful? Was that not helpful?
Haylie: I mean, I think I remember, I remember this specifically because I, it was when you went to Las Vegas and I.
I remember being terrified. I was terrified of planes anyway.
Cynthia: I think that you were in fifth grade because I think we went to Las Vegas the month after September 11th when all those planes went into the. Buildings and stuff. So that probably even, you know, more was your sensitivity because you saw that on TV for days and days and days of these planes crashing and your mom's going to get on one, one month later.
Haylie: Yeah. And I was also, I already was afraid of planes. Cause I'm like, wow, you super don't have a control over anything. Like you're just, you know, in the air. And so I. I remember that really vividly. Like, I didn't want you to go because I was like, wow, this plane's just going to crash. And like, there's nothing I can do about it.
But [00:10:00] obviously, in a sensible person's brain, I think saying that would be helpful. But I think because. In your anxiety brain, nothing like that doesn't help, like, that doesn't make any sense to me. Like,
Cynthia: well, you, I have to parents say that, like, cause you can't say, I'm not going to die. I know there's no way nobody has control over that.
So I don't know. I'm trying to think what would be so helpful to hear in that situation. I mean, I truly
Haylie: think you, I think you said the right thing cause yeah, you don't want to die. I don't know why. And the idea that there were people there to catch me was helpful. Like, yes, because you and dad went on the plane.
So if the plane went down, you both would be gone. Like there would not be a dad then to just take care of me. But, and so I think knowing that, like, there were people, and I think I remember when you went to Las Vegas, all of the, the childcare of me was [00:11:00] split between, you know, grandparents. And I think I stayed with aunt Susan.
And I think being around those people that were close was helpful because I think they understood, like, Haylie's a little bit weird and like, it's going to be weird this whole time that they're gone. And I remember, I think it was. I think it was grandma Joyce. I was waiting the day that you were coming home.
I remember sitting on the front porch waiting to see your car come around because I was like, I have to know that she's okay. And I think I sat outside for like 2 hours and I remember, I remember Gma just sat with me. And that was helpful, like the fact
that
Cynthia: she has anxiety too, though. So she probably got kind of what you were going through.
I think
Haylie: so many people in our family have anxiety, but I don't, I just, and I don't think anybody, nobody wants to admit that they're thinking these crazy things. I remember I never wanted to tell [00:12:00] anybody because I. I thought, like, people are gonna really think, I, everyone already thought I was weird, like, I didn't need more people thinking, like, oh, well, you're weird because you're thinking these crazy things.
But
Cynthia: you and I are really close, and we always talked about everything, like, and I feel like, and you can tell the truth, but. I feel like I always had an open, safe space for you to talk about anything because I knew how important it was. Did that help or do you still feel like you didn't want to tell me because I'm your mom or
Haylie: I felt like I, I've always felt like I could tell you anything like that is.
One of the beautiful things about our relationship. I think more so because it was such this over arching thing. Like I was thinking about it every day, like talking to you about it every day would not have helped me. I was more about like the. You know, this is happening at school. This person's being crazy.[00:13:00]
I'm being people are teasing me about this. Like, I, I feel like I talked more about those things because like, when I was with you, that stuff was in the background, like, if you were home, if I was home, if it was generally a regular school day, I was, I was okay. And so when I got home, I was like, well, she's totally fine.
I can talk about anything else now. Because I did think when you came home, I would just turn it off because I knew you were there. So I didn't have to worry about it. So that, I mean, probably wasn't on my fifth grade brain. Do you think
Cynthia: that was your main worry or do you think you were worrying about other things too?
I there
Haylie: are sections of my life. I can tell you what I was worried about. Okay. So, like, when I was the littlest me, so I want to say, gosh, when did I read chicken noodle soup for the teenage soul? I don't know why that was so prominent. Like that moment,
Cynthia: I didn't know those books were [00:14:00] so damaging.
Haylie: It was supposed to help people.
And they totally didn't. It's funny that that was the book that happened. Ruined my life. Anyway, so like from first grade, probably through fifth or sixth grade, it was my mom's going to die. And how am I going to prevent that? And then from sixth grade to gosh, probably sophomore year, it was about like. It was a lot about friendships, like having anxiety about friendships.
I do think my anxiety died down at that point. And I don't know if it's because my brain was going through so many changes. Like, it couldn't keep up with the anxiety part. So it kind of like, put that to the side. But I remember. Like specifically around you know, Carrie's house burned down and then she was in that terrible car accident.
I remember being really anxious about friends like, Oh, my friends could [00:15:00] die, which is something I really wasn't in the realm of possibilities for me because we're all so young. I'm like, I wouldn't have thought
Cynthia: about, yeah so
Haylie: like I said, not as, not as. I was anxious during that time, but I think also because there was a lot of school drama, like, that was.
Weighing heavy on my mind also, that was when I started getting crushes on boys. And so my brain was super occupied with but I remember when I was a junior. And this is another, like, core memory. I went to church camp with Carrie. I think it was that summer before junior year. And if you've ever been to church camp, obviously there's like a sermons all day, every day.
And there was a sermon that someone gave about this youth pastor and this youth pastor was like, so full of like, these are not people that I knew other than carry. Like, I'm just hearing from [00:16:00] strangers perspectives on this, but anyway, they had this youth pastor and he was so full of life and he was going to do all these amazing things and he had a brain aneurysm at a party and died.
And I remember, first of all, they talked vividly about what happened. Which I, A, didn't know that was something that could happen, but B, it can just kill you at any time and you're just dead. And like, you can't do anything about it. And so for, oh, my God, years of my life, probably from junior year until midway through college.
I worried about that every single day. And that's when. My sleep got really bad. That's when I was like, I have a serious problem. Like, I can't function like this. And I remember it was 1 of those things. I also have anxiety that if you speak something into existence, it will happen. So I couldn't tell anybody [00:17:00] because if I set it out loud, then it would happen.
And I don't give words that power anymore, but I did. And I remember thinking so many people that I know that it, that had had, you know, a brain aneurysm and died. I remember thinking like, oh, it happens at night. So I just have to stay awake because that'll prevent it from happening. So I, my freshman year, I remember in the dorms, I would.
Go up to my, my bunk, my little top bunk, and I would just look out the window and worry all night long. Like, if I had the slightest headache, well, I'm going to die. So I have to get my stuff in order. Like, I have to get ready that I'm because there's nothing I can do about it. And I remember. Like I can still picture looking at the like four way stop outside of my dorm room every night and just being like, am I going to die now?
Is it happening now? Is it going to happen now? Like, and that's when I was like, Oh, [00:18:00] people don't function like this. Like my roommate was just like snoozing away. And I'm like, I don't think I should feel like this.
Cynthia: And you were diagnosed, I feel like it was after you graduated from college, but was it before that?
So I
Haylie: went to therapy for the first time for all of these issues when I was in college. Cause that's when they were like, Oh, you have high blood pressure. Just FYI. Which I was super anxious about. A lot of my anxiety at that point was around, like, health. So, obviously, yes, having a brain aneurysm, but also, like, any other number of terrible things that could happen, like, bacterial meningitis, because everyone's like, oh, well, that's super prominent at colleges, and I'm, like, panicking on that.
And so, just anything that could happen health wise, I was panicked about. So, That's when I started going to the doctor regularly but I, I also was like, I have to go to therapy. Like, I cannot, I cannot function. I cannot not sleep and also go to college. Like, college is [00:19:00] hard enough. So, yeah, I started going to therapy at that time because there's a lot of other things going on in my life that I was anxious about specifically just around like parents
Cynthia: and, well, and we got divorced when you were a senior in high school.
Yes. So then that, well, I guess you were a junior in high school. Cause I moved away when you were a senior in high school. And so there was a lot of, I'm sure a lot, well, the one panic attack that I remember that I went to college to help you with, I feel like was around that stuff cause it was, you were talking about your dad.
Haylie: Yes, I, and I had, I mean, I feel like that was like a mental breakdown at that point. Like, I felt like
Cynthia: it was too, cause I was the worst that I had ever seen you, but you know, I, I said, oh, well, Haylie needs to get off birth control pills. That's why this happened. You know,
Haylie: I [00:20:00] do think that was part of it. Like that being on birth control mess so much with my.
Hormones and my emotions. I hate that. That's like the, just the, like the cure all for anyone having, I mean, obviously if you're having sex that's like the number 1 thing they say, but if you're having bad acne, if you're having bad cramps, it's just like, oh, here, take this birth control. But it's so it, it messes with your brain so much.
And for some people, it's beautiful and great. I know people that have been on birth control for a million years and it's been perfect and they're having a great time. It made me feel like a different person. Like, I felt like I had no control over anything that was happening. Like, I could see myself doing things and I'm like, that is out of control behavior, but I couldn't stop myself.
Like, it was, it was bizarre. But yes, I think that contributed for sure. So I, I just think as a
Cynthia: parent, you [00:21:00] know, I, I just kept explaining it away as all these other things. I never, it's not that I think anxiety is terrible. I just didn't want you to have it. I didn't want you to have anything wrong with you.
I just want, you know, I want you to just have this most perfect life. And I think because you're so outgoing, I. I thought, well, it can't be anxiety because she's not shy. She's not staying in a room. She's not. And so I was really confused about it. And I feel sad because as a mental health provider, I, you know, was totally not in tune with it, I guess.
I mean, I could see it in other people. I could help other people with it. And I do think that when you love somebody and you, you know, you're the parent of them or the sister of them or the. The romantic partner of them or whatever, it's hard for you to see the things the way they really are because you don't want them to be that way.
Haylie: I also think [00:22:00] though, mental health
Cynthia: has changed so much. Well, yeah. Anxiety was not a thing for kids when you were little, like nobody said
Haylie: that. And like I said, I could not have pinpointed that that's what it was until I was so much older. Like when I, when I was in college was when I really started to like, think about stress and anxiety.
Cause obviously you have school stress. Like that was
Cynthia: always there and everyone has anxiety. It's just what, to what level and how does it stop you from doing things? And does it keep you up at night and all that kind of stuff is what makes it. I keep calling it diagnosable. I don't even know if that's a thing, but like I, in all my podcasts about anxiety, I say everybody has it.
Like I get anxious about things, but I don't have diagnosable anxiety because I can turn the volume down and I can keep going forward and do the things that I want to do. And I remember when you first started working as a teacher, you told me. You [00:23:00] know, you were couldn't sleep and you were thinking about stuff all night.
And I said, and was that health stuff or was that everything?
Haylie: I mean, I think a lot of that had to do. With repercussions of the divorce, you don't know how to talk about that. Like, yeah, I understand without being still like very angry, but not it.
Cynthia: And even if it was me, the, I, I can handle
Haylie: it. I think, so I think a lot of that came.
From that, at that point, I also, gosh, new teacher anxiety is a real thing. So feeling like I was not doing anything, even though I was like, staying after school and grading all these papers, like they set you up for so much failure. No offense to the people that taught me about teaching. I still love those people, but.
I mean, you're, you're made to feel like if you don't act or do things a certain way, then you're a bad teacher.
Cynthia: Yeah. [00:24:00] It's like that same thing. Yes. I think
Haylie: a lot of that's just how you're, how you're made to feel. And so constantly feeling like I wasn't good enough,
Cynthia: but, but I remember when you told me you started taking medication and you said, mom, I don't have to listen to that.
Stuff in my head anymore. Like I know you didn't, I'm sure you didn't say it was gone, but it was quiet. It was like, it was turned down. That's the way I always think about it as a volume. And I tell all my clients, like, I'm going to teach you things. I mean, some people need medication to turn it down, but there are also things that you can learn about calming your central nervous system and stuff that turn the volume down.
And so that's what So when you started taking medication, the volume got turned down. Did you notice right away that, Oh, I feel so much better.
Haylie: It came at any, I think medication. So I'm, I'm taking generic Lexapro, [00:25:00] which is antidepressant, anti anxiety meds, but And so they take a little bit of time to work.
Of course, I think the placebo effect, I took the 1st pill and 2 minutes later, I'm like, I'm cured. I feel so much better. Like, this is great. I think it did take a couple of weeks, but I started noticing and they teach you this. Like, if you do meditation like I. I used the calm app for a long time.
And so when they talk about meditation on there, it's, you let the thoughts come in, like you're not forcing them to not come in, but you let them come and go. And that's how it feels in my brain now. Like I'll have an anxious thought, but then it just, I just let it go away, which is not something I could have done before.
Cynthia: Well, and I think that there are people that have to have the medication in order to be calm enough to do the things. And I,
Haylie: cause I went to therapy for. A long time as an adult to try to, like, get this figured out because I was like, well, talk therapy is what [00:26:00] everyone says is like the end all be all.
And I got a lot of, as my therapist would say, tools in my toolbox about. How to stop having some of those thoughts and I did some of those were really helpful. For example, stop getting on WebMD, stop Googling things, stop it, like, quit going there. And I had to just I really had to stop myself, like, because that was when I would start spiraling.
Cynthia: Cause it always ends and you're going to die. I mean, like list is, you know, like all these little baby things and then all the way to, or death.
Haylie: Yeah. Like you should go to the hospital right now. Yeah. And so I got a lot of really helpful things that I remember. I went to my doctor and I was like, okay, I'm trying all this stuff and I'm still, this isn't helping.
Like I, it's, it's giving me these like tiny little bits of like a pause in my brain, but like, I can't, I will still spiral. And so, yeah, they put me on Lexapro [00:27:00] and I've, I've never looked back. I, it literally changed my life. I remember the 1st day. So the 1st day I was counseling. My first day as a school counselor at Robinson was the first day that I took it.
And I had a full blown panic attack on the way to school. Why am I doing this? Who signed me up to be a counselor? I don't know what I'm doing. I should not have gotten this job. And I remember Matt and I drove to work together that day and he was like, just take a deep breath. And I, I, he was like, you know, kids, you love kids.
They are going to love you. Middle school is perfect for you, blah, blah, blah. And so I went in there and the second I said hi to a kid, it all went away. Like it drained out of my body. And I was like, Oh, I know what I'm doing. But yeah, I remember throughout the course of the day. I I'm like, I said, I'm sure it's placebo, but I was just like, I'm not thinking about this.
Stuff anymore. Mm-Hmm. And so, yeah, my first year of [00:28:00] counseling I was smooth sailing. I was like not worried about anything. Which was probably great for my anxiety 'cause I'm sure if I wasn't on meds that first year would've been a nightmare. .
Cynthia: Well, and I was gonna ask you, 'cause so many of the people that I talked to are like, oh, I got off my meds and then I got all mixed up.
So you've never. Gone off of it. I,
Haylie: in my brain, I know, like, I, it's been such a godsend for me that, like, I can't, I, when they were, when I got pregnant and they were like, you know, some people stopped taking them because. You know, they're afraid it's going to affect their baby, or some people don't want it in their breast milk or anything like that.
And I was like, I don't care. Like, the, the sanctity of my mental health right now is so important to me. If I had not been on medication and been pregnant, that would have been terrible. I already have health anxiety and they were already telling me, well, you have to be induced and you might have, you know, preeclampsia [00:29:00] and all this other stuff to see if high blood pressure.
I If I had not had medication that I would have heard all those things and literally lost my mind. Like, and I remember pregnancy, this is like, could be a whole other podcast. Like the whole idea of like, I have to go to a hospital and have all these things done to me. Like, and I don't have any control over it.
Like I have to have a baby. He's going to have to come out of there. I can't stop that from happening. Well,
Cynthia: and I think being a parent is anxiety producing for every single person because you get this baby and you're like, well, I don't know what to do with this thing. And, and then you have to keep it alive.
And then I remember. I, and like I always say, I don't have diagnosable anxiety, but I remember when you were a baby, I was like, well, an iron could fall on her head and she can fly off this balcony and like, just, I mean, like there's so many things to worry about. And so now you have this beautiful [00:30:00] baby.
Well, he's not even a baby anymore. So I wanted to ask you, and we really do, I mean, we could talk for a million hours. I don't want to do it. But as a parent now. And you look at that little beautiful baby and, you know, like, are you going to be thinking about, are you going to be watching for anxiety signs or like, what do you think you're going to be doing?
Haylie: I'm already, that's funny that you mentioned that because this week, every once in a while, like it gets darker earlier. So he's awake when it's dark right now and he'll look outside and he'll say, It's dark mama. And I'll say, are you afraid of the dark? Like, is that scary? And he'll just, he'll look at me and he'll just, well, of course he's, he says yes to everything right now.
So he's just like, yeah. And I'm like, well, I said to you, when you go to bed and you know, your room is dark, I'm asking him all these questions about it. And he's just trying to do his own thing, like running away from me. And I'm like, trying to have a serious conversation with him. But I do think I'm.[00:31:00]
Tuned into a lot of that stuff. I think all the time about, you know, my, my therapist said, you know, you're a highly sensitive person and HSP, which is a thing. I do see like signs of that, which can, you know, become anxiety later on. So I, I sent some of that in him, but I also, I'm trying to just let him be his little self and like not pre diagnosing him before anything happens for real.
But I do, I do feel like I'm. Cognizant of it. And I'm constantly like, I want to know what you're thinking in your little brain. He probably doesn't even know what he's thinking. He's just saying crazy stuff, but well, what
Cynthia: was something that was not helpful to you as you were growing up that you wish wouldn't have happened?
Well, don't you wish that the divorce didn't happen, but like, was there, was there techniques that I did or things. I mean, I guess we can throw your dad in there too, but was there things that, [00:32:00] that adults or parents specifically did that you were like, that was not helpful?
Haylie: Nothing. I can't think of anything that was like, this was detrimental.
I mean, obviously people saying like, you should just like, not worry about it is never helpful, but I had not expressed my like, severe worry. I don't think. As a kid, and I don't know that you really can explain it super well with your kid, but but, yeah, don't worry about it. I remember I remember 1 time I was worried about something and I remember you said, sometimes I just don't think about that stuff.
And I'm like, my brain doesn't work. I can't not think about it. And I think that was when I was older, but, but I think so, yeah, saying things like, just calm down. Don't worry about it. Not helpful. I think a lot of things that were helpful. You were always willing to just sit and listen to me. And, of course, like I said, I [00:33:00] wasn't super forthcoming about I am having thoughts of you dying constantly.
Like, I wasn't saying that, but being able to talk about literally anything else, like, everything that was happening at school, because that is such a big part of life when you're growing up. And, and knowing that I could, I could share literally anything and with no judgment was helpful. I, I, that is like my number 1 as a counselor, seeing parents and their kids as long.
You can't judge them for a single thing. That is what will drive you apart more than anything. And, and kids would always say, like, I don't want to talk to my mom because, you know, she thinks that's dumb or she has said she doesn't like X, Y, Z. And I was like, you can't, you just have to be, you just have to listen and go,
Cynthia: yeah, because you're going to hear things that you don't want to hear.
You told me things that I didn't want to hear things,
Haylie: but I'm just
Cynthia: like, okay, tell me more [00:34:00] about that. Yeah. And sometimes I would say to you probably more when you were an adult, but I think even because I always wanted to parent with you and not over you. I, I would say I'm, I'm going to put my mom hat on now.
And that usually just meant. I'm going to give you advice, and I'm going to tell you that I don't like this, or I'm going to tell you that this doesn't make sense to me, or I'm going to tell you that I feel upset about it, or whatever, but it was, I always tried to do it in a way that was like, this isn't against you, it's just me saying how I feel about it too, and I, I think that that can help.
I think that I was probably better at this than some just because I experienced, I mean, I, I still to this day, my hackles will get up immediately. When anybody like my parent, like my mom does things like, well, I don't like that or, you know, just read [00:35:00] your Bible or, you know what? I just immediately felt angry because I'm like, you're not listening to me.
And I, I remember that that was the number one reason why I was angry. My entire growing up life was, I thought you're not listening to me. Yeah. And I thought, I am not going to be that parent. I'm going to listen to everything and I'm going to, I'm going to take it all in. And I'm also such an open person to everything in the world that a lot of things don't bother me.
But that's because I don't take any of it personally. And I don't assume that because someone is choosing something, I'm That it means anything bad necessarily. Like I don't know. I mean, there's obviously things that you and your brother did that I was like, I hate this so bad, but it doesn't mean that you're a bad person and it doesn't mean, it doesn't mean anything.
And I think so many of the adults in my life thought that those choices also meant that person was [00:36:00] bad. I never thought that and I still don't think that so and I, I think that's something that can be learned if there are parents out there that feel very angry towards their kids about choices that.
They could learn to take their personal preferences out of it or and allow their child, because I really believe that if we allow our children to have a safe space to talk about anything, that they're going to come up with the answers we want them to come up with. Yeah. because there's no pressure to choose something else.
And even if they are choosing things that we don't agree with, they're gonna come to a clear understanding of it through the safety. Mm-Hmm. being open. Yeah. I used to,
Haylie: I had kids in middle school when I specifically when I was a counselor, that would make not great [00:37:00] choices. And I remember they would ask me, do you think I'm a bad kid?
Like you think I'm a bad kid? And I always said, you are wonderful. You are good inside. You made a bad choice. That doesn't mean you're a bad person. And so I think just letting them know, like, there are bad choices. Like you can make choices that are hurting people, hurting yourself. Those are not great choices, but you're never a bad person.
And I, I think I knew that when I was growing up, I just, my brain
Cynthia: didn't work right. Well, and I think we all, our brains. Are mostly negative to ourselves, you know, like, Oh, you're crazy. You're terrible. Everyone hates you. You're ugly. You're fat. You're. All these things and that we can't stop that from happening either, but all the things like any of the mindset stuff that you can learn helps turn that volume down.
And I think that that that's my main goal with all my [00:38:00] clients and my podcast and everything I do. I want people to know you can learn ways to turn that down and you don't have to believe it and you don't have to have guilt and shame for so many things. Yeah. I love that. I love it too. I am so glad that you're with me today and I know it, it's going to be helpful for people to see the, the mother child dynamic because I can talk about it a lot, but you know, you were here saying the truth about stuff and I, you know, I didn't do everything right, but I tried really hard to right the wrongs of my own childhood and you know, You know, I'm still learning.
I wish I could parent you now all over again, the way I was. So I'm just gonna be a surrogate parent to Oliver to teach him all the things that I know now. Yeah, I am such a, I'm so much calmer and emotionally stable and mature. [00:39:00] And I, I haven't, I mean, that's just been in the last five to six years that I've really become this person and maybe that's what happens in your fifties.
I don't know. Maybe everyone, you know, comes to this, Oh place, but yeah, I mean, I, I feel like everyone's doing the best they can do and we can all learn things to just be better. I think
Haylie: being a parent, becoming a parent. Gives you a lot of clarity about how you were parented and so then, of course, I think I, I posted something on Instagram the other day that said, I don't want to be a parent that you have to recover from.
Yes. And so I, and so I think about that every day with Oliver, like, I'm going to just be the best person that I can be for you. You came to me for a reason. I'm your mom for a reason. So
Cynthia: I believe that and some, and in some ways of thinking, people say you choose your parents. So I don't know. [00:40:00] I think that's a little bit, it's almost too woo woo for me, but sometimes I think, you know, I can see the lessons that I needed to learn from my parents, even though I wasn't parented the way I wished I was parented and it wasn't bad.
It was just not. The way I needed to be parented, but I learned a lot. So I guess that's good.
Haylie: That's how it works.
Cynthia: Yes. Well, Haylie, thank you for being with us and maybe in another three years you can come back and tell us more stuff. Oh,
Haylie: I can talk for hours. I'm sure. I know. Me too. Thank you. Yeah.